spears concert. i didn't pay for it, but i'm sure my mom spent a lot before. >> and i love this one, paid 250 bucks for sec championship >> we wanted a policy fight and what did we do? we went back to our districts and told the seniors although we voted no, we personally believe we will work with the busch administration to make it work. that's what we did. and how many of you stood up to do that? none, zero, zero. >> gentleman. >> yes, i will. >> i will just tell you that. >> where are you? >> right here. >> you asked a question, i'm going to answer it.

it's a false choice to stay it's obama care or nothing. there are numerous proposals, including the one i'm a co-sponsor-of-. >> i yield back, sir. let me take the time back. are you serious what you just said? are you really serious? after what we have gone through. after what we have gone through in the last 3.5 years? have you -- you can sit there and say that you had a legitimate alternative after these years? we've gone through 44 votes, 48 votes now of you trying to dismantle this legislation. you ka ul that cooperation? i don't. >> yep, that's one way of putting it. welcome to "morning joe," everyone. it is october 30th, the day before halloween. >> that's how harold and i were on education. >> it wasn't that, kill the

mood. we have pulitzer please historian john meacham. are you going to do the jonas brothers right now? >> i did it earlier. i proofread it. no one proofread the jonas brothers. >> that's a shame. msnbc visiting analyst. former democratic congressman harold ford, jr. good morning. and in washington, we have senior political editor and white house correspondent for the huffington post, sam stein. sam, the piece of paper in front of you. look at that. he comes with pages. >> you know why he got the notes from? >> where? >> his plummer yesterday, he gave him the details. how did it go? >> is everything working with the dishwasher okay? >> no, it's not. >> everything is hysterical. >> now would be a good time for you to tell the audience, actually, your plummer works for the obama administration.

willie, do you believe all spoold up mia was yesterday. everything was going fine, ten she showed up on set, whew. i'd like to apologize. >> i said something that actually made sense and joe just -- >> more impressions today? >> maybe. . maybe so, maybe a great thing. i don't know, i can't wait. >> all right. why don't we get to the news? i love that opening sound byte. that was fantastic. did you see the guy's face just sitting there going -- >> he couldn't get to -- >> you know what, he had in ug to say. >> feeter do i. >> yeah. >> we're going to do the news. this morning, president obama will be in boston -- >> oh, good, he's going to see the red sox. >> i know you invited him. >> sam, you want to go to the game? >> i would love to, i didn't realize i was invited until now, though. >> i just invited you. >> i will see you then. >> we bring sam?

okay. are we bringing the plummer? okay. not for the red sox but to speak about the affordable care act. kathleen sebelius is expected for the blame contractors. >> she's profiling. call in caroline kennedy. >> saying they did not meet expectations. >> it's the proift sector's fault. >> however, late last night, chairman darryl is sa ell issa government agency there was not adequate november time to test the website. the woman in charge of the obama care marketplace testified before congress and apologized for issues with the site. he was asked when we will see how many people signed up for coverage through the obama care

exchanges. >> you have no numbers on who's enrolled, so have you for the idea? >> we will have those numbers available mid-november. >> i am saying you will publicly release those number, do you have an idea on a weekly basis how many people have enrolled, how do you know how many people are enrolled? >> jeremy kemp, we will have those numbers mid-november. >> i am sure you have been termed a quarterback of the rollout. i am sure you did not choose those words yourself. can you guarantee no americans will have a gap in their health care. >> what i can guarantee, we have a program that's working. we will increase the speed of that system. >> are you saying the system right now is work something. >> i'm saying it is working, it is not working at the speed that we want and the success rate we want. >> i don't understand how this problem goes on. it goes on and on. yesterday, the miss tavenner

went there. she is in charge of the program. she didn't have answers on how many people were enrolled. she didn't have answers whether there will be a gap in the coverage. let me answerer, there will be americans that are caught in that gap that will not have coverage because of this. >> that no answers. and politico was writing about it yesterday going, it's shocking that they remain so ill prepared to answer the most basic questions about a system that they're trying to implement to radically overhaul the way health care is delivered in this country. >> clearly, she was put in an awful position. she should not have gone before that committee before more answers than they have. >> come on, they don't want to give the answers i am sure the president of the united states knows how many people enrolled as of yesterday. i guarantee you the chief of staff, everybody in the west wing has a chart that shows how many people have enrolled in

this program. if she's put in a bad position, which means she can't tell the truth. >> at some point john knows having covered so many presidents or done so much research on various presidents and what it takes to be successful, this is not the kind of path you want to travel. i know kathleen sebelius. i trust her, i would imagine going before the committee an repeating what the director has said here can't be good for the administration and ultimately won't be good in the short and intermediate term for the program, itself. democrats and republicans will have to tinker with this and make changes over time. the real question comes from me. if, indeed -- >> it's like the titanic, you tinker your way through the fog. the question becomes if and when the president has to delay the individual pan date.

obvious -- mandate. the question was that didn't come. we didn't see any coverage from that from the director. >> john, miss tavenner said the argument we almost heard for a month, the crushing load of demand, obama care is what caused the program through this website. she, too, it wasn't just kathleen sebelius, she said cgi federal is to blame. you think they're glad they took this contract at this point? they have been thrown under the bus again and again. >> that doesn't pass the smell test, to many people are signing up, it's just too popular. >> except for barnicle still on the website trying to sign up. i have been trying to think of it as an analogy here, what has been like this and the potential long-term impact and stipulating that these are imprecise, this is in a way the progressive

equivalent of declareing catch up of vegetable. the website problems have the potential for a generation to be used as an argument against government-run programs and it may not be fair. but this is like a $600 toilet seat in the pentagon. it's like the catch-up is a vegetable. it's going to be used for years and years and the difference, fairly right, no, no, you can't make a face on that one, no eyebrow, because this is a problem. >> hold ozbln this is a problem, this is a self-inflicted wound for people who believe in the public sector and it just is. you disagree with that? >> no. >> they rushed this. they shouldn't have rushed it and, you know, david ignacious earlier this woke had a greater insight. he said, you know, this was an overreach politically. it was. the democrats shoved this through. forget the filibuster, they got

a fair majority. they didn't really have the support of the american people. he said, more importantly, i thought this was a great point, policy-wise, it was an overreach. it was too much. we are seeing now they can't handle this. the federal government as it is currently constructed cannot handle this. >> they should have been able to. >> i would argue, i agree with that. >> i don't agree with that. that it was a political overreach? >> political overreach. this is a poor job of execution. they should have pushed this back if they were not ready. as a result, it will raise questions for the long term whether government and public entities can manage enormous projects like this. >> here to my mind, to make one more early grand point. >> please do. >>ly not mention the french and indian war just yet. here's the problem. >> dam it, that's why we're here. >> at the moment until there is some sort of transformative presidential or congressional

leadership, which i don't particularly see on the horizon, this is the way it's going to be. this is the new normal right now. so if you are in these narrow votes, you are going to end up with the responsibility to make sure that if you do reach one person's overreach is another person's ambition. if are you ambitious, if you drive it through, you have an enormous commensurate responsibility. >> i agree with you. >> we have a lot of things to talk about. there is one real important point, though, that i noeed you to get from john. progressive government can work. we saw it with lbj, but historians have going to have to pass pretty tough judgment on this president for being as detached as he is in comparison to lbj. who you listen to the lbj tapes, he calls subcommittee shachairm

before a vote comes up. he's angry at him because they're not moving fast enough in a 5-4 vote. like linden johnson was complete -- that's the only reason why medicare worked. that's the only reason why the civil rights bills passed. it is, i guess, a lot easier to be a conservative president saying, we're going to cut, worry going to abolish. we're going to do whatever, the stuff i believe in. but if you are going to be a progressive president, you better look at lbj and fdr as your role models, this president, this is one of the worst performances i think any of us have seen. i have a rollout of a major initiative. it's not just the website. it's all of these other things that really matter. >> and it was the explanatory role wasn't filled, fulfilled. it's been very tough. i think right now the conventional narrative about obama was, yes, he was overly isolated. lamar alexander tells the story about everett dirkson being on

the phone with lbj one afternoon saying, no, mr. president, i was there yesterday, i can't come down for a drink, i got to go home. he hangs up the phone, before he goes out of the office, he hears lbj's beagles in the hall. he had gone out, to the car, to the capitol to make him drink with him. that's where the civil rights bill happened. >> that's lamar's story, but i think it is not to say if everybody had a drink together the kingdom of god would come. >> it's not over a drink. everybody gets confused. we don't want him to drink or socialize, we want him to get locked in. >> because we all know on the par gin, you get 5%. you get 5% if you know each other a little bit. >> can i just say? i think everyone should drink together, first of all. okay. >> all right. that's it. >> secondly, we've rushed to judgment on these things a little too quickly.

i will stipulate, the world has been a disaster. the website has not been ready. the president has been clearly detached from the process, be you these things are moving objects and they take time. so medicare part d, for instance, did not roll out smoothly. the number enrolled in the massachusetts health care system in the first month was 123 people. imagine if that was the result of the federal system on that scale. people would be laughing and criticizing it soundly. of course, it ended up working on 97% enrollment at massachusetts. we can't rush to sweeping judgment so quickly. >> we will re-visit this. don't worry. we got a bunch of stuff to turn to. talking about the government under surveillance of america's allies. the "wall street journal" reports the data was actually given to the u.s. by european intelligence services and not collected by the nsa. >> that could complicate the situation for several foreign leaders who have criticized the

obama programs and recent disclose years about spying were meant a to shame america's top spy, it didn't work. here's nbc's andrea mitchell. >> reporter: under fiemp frre fe moment they walked in, they were protesting about spying. but america's spy agencies were not apologizing to anyone, claiming, instead, all countries spy. >> some of this remind me of the classic movie "casablanca," my god, there is gambling going on here, it's the same kind of thing. >> do you believe the alloys have conducted at any time -- allies have conducted at any time spying on us or otherwise? >> absolutely. >> reporter: they don'ted reports of mass phone records on millions of people in spain and france.

france's president and germany and more than 30 leaders in all, an invasion of privacy the u.s. has not denied. what the administration will not explain is how president obama did not know as the white house claims. >> if the president didn't know, he certainly should have known. one would think that if he didn't know, he would have demanded the resignations of those who should have briefed him. >> officials say the president pay not have known about merkel but would know the nsa spied on leaders, including friends. >> the president and his national council would by a ware. >> reporter: europe's most powerful politician grew up in east germany, notorious for spying on its own citizens, but being everybodies dropped by the u.s.. >> don't underestimate her. she has a long memory. this will be a reason why this will be a harsh problem for the

american-german relations for the next years. >> first of all, we have -- >> did you see that picture of barak barak with his arm around her, willie? >> she doesn't want to be touched. >> she's german, she doesn't want to be touched. >> look. joe, this is a chance, be post-past sand, remember. mr. president bush. >> that's what i'm saying. >> this is post-traumatic stress. >> stop touching her. >> rubbing her shoulders, she flinches, she's uncomfortable. >> that's an intimate hug. >> hey, text me later. >> stop, stop, stop. okay. joining us now from august. >> obviously, meacham's lying. >> -- former director of the nsa and the cia, our friend of the show here general michael hayden. thank you for being here on the show. >> george w. bush, we were

talking about the yesterday, did george w. bush cap -- >> did the bush administration do this type of a baum dream. >>. >> of course, we did. again, i will not get into any specifics here. but this is normal behavior between nation states. this is an "r" rated movie. this is how adult nations treat each other. it's fully accepted. let me give you a concrete example. remember president obama was kind of wetted to his blackberry when he was coming into office. folks like me were saying, this is a big deal, we thought we worked out a compromise, nsa threw a couple defensive tools into the blackberry. now he uses his blackberry. let me give you the backdrop to that story, joe, mika. the most powerful man on earth, the most powerful man in the most powerful nation on earth was just told that his

communications were susceptible to intercept by dozens of foreign embassies inside his own national capitol. we didn't render garments. we didn't protest. we realized. that's the way things are. >> you aren't shocked by angela merkel's phone being monitored? >> no. >> is this like the new tie tony blair was going to we're before he left his house? >> general can i ask you a question, is it surprising to you, does it raise questions when the president of the united states says he wasn't aware after this kind of under surveillance and monitoring was under way? should the president know or not know? what is your impression of that? >> i am kind of in the same place that senator colins was. you would have thought he would have known. on the other hand, i can imagine circumstances where he might not have known this specific or that specific. but your quote from like leiter in andrea's piece is inseissive. it is impossible for me to believe that the administration,

the white house the nsc did not have knowledge of what was going on. after all, what was happening was done in response to specific requests for information they were making. >> oh, wow. general hayden, it's willie geist. so you say everybody does it and this is a natural thing between nation states. obviously, chance lor merkel was showing off her new encrypted cell phone at a press conference the other day. down she under stood she has been monitored all the time, because she hasn't acted like it lately. >> you are right, willie, despite what i just said, do not make light of the very difficult political position this and the revelation of this has put her in. and she's a friend and we ought to bear some responsibility for that. i think what it is, will, is, not that it was being done, not even that it was discovered, because if the german security

services had discovered this activity, they won have paid it public. this would have been a private event, if an event at all between the united states and the germans. and again, we are not confirming or denying anything, when you got this out there in the newspapers and it is public and she has an angry population, it's not fact of that's the problem. it's fact of being in the papers that's a problem. >> general sam stein has a question for you. >> general, i was shocked to see dianne feinstein demand more from the nsa. a friend said her going up to the nsa is like joe biden going after amtrak. so i'm wondering from your perspective, are you concerned about too much oversight? are you willing or do you acknowledge there needs to be more oversight, more disclosure and transparency about these practices? >> look, i'm fully in favor of more disclosure and more transparency. it's an easy do to the committee.

now, it's quite another thing how much you want to make public to the american public and, the really interesting question here is now the demand that european publics want to be told how we spy. chance lor merkel asked the watergate question, what did the president know and when did he know it? a foreign loader asking that of an american leader kind of shows where the center lean of the current conversation now rests. we need to kind of push that back towards the middle a bit. >> general, sort of listening to dianne feinstein being shocked this was going on sort of reminded me of do i an feinstein and i'm sure you, too, jay rockefeller and other democrats shocked in 2006 at the sort of programs we were doing in 2002 and 2003 that they were fully briefed on. >> i guess they're just playing for the stands? >> you know, i don't want to impute motives. certainly, senator feinstein you already suggested has been a

supporter and in a current climate a strong defender of nsa. let me tell you the danger here, i mean this seriously. we have seen this movie before. we've done it at least once. in the 1990s, north american is intelligence was pulled back in regard to human intelligence collection because they were told we don't you guys talking any longer to bad people. we could have the same effect now if we tell our citizen intelligence collectors that under no circumstances will they ever be allowed to listen to good people and we're going find ourselves less knowledgeable and, therefore, more in danger if that's how we come out of this. >> general, it's john meacham, quickly, has the electronics communications, is the arrival of e-mails and texts when we were tapping phones and letters. >> when i was with the nsa, we

had how rapidly they change, the volume, variety and velocity of modern communications, we also knew deep in our heart, if we were half good as keeping up with this technology, if we were only half good, this would be the golden age of electronic intelligence. >> all right, general hayden, thank you very much for sharing your insight this morning. >> thank you. coming up on "morning joe," republican pat toomey joins us. also aowe. >> we have a comeback, really, a comeback story. >> also. >> go cart. >> there ask a new name topping the forbes list of the world's most powerful people. we'll get a complete breakdown with the magazine's executive editor. >> embargo.

speaking of powerful, my god. >> here with the stories. >> it's crazy, he's like a ceo now. i started part-time, now i'm a manager.n. my employer matches my charitable giving. really. i get bonuses even working part-time. where i work, over 400 people are promoted every day. healthcare starting under $40 a month. i got education benefits. i work at walmart. i'm a pharmacist. sales associate. i manage produce. i work in logistics. there's more to walmart than you think. vo: opportunity. that's the real walmart. ♪

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that's what ameriprise financial does. that's what they can do with you. ameriprise financial. more within reach. >> okay. time now to take a look at the morning papers, from our parade of papers the washington post, the u.s. government is reporting the loss of $9.7 billion on the $50 bailout of general motors. since 2009, the u.s. treasury has reduced its equity in gm from about 60% to about 7%. the government plans to sell its remaining shares by next april, but the shares would need to sell for about $150 each just to

break even. gm stock was trading at 35.72 yesterday. >> major companies, ups, lowes are trying to take advantage of the u.s. natural gas boom by making the change to natural gas fuel trucks. natural gas is cheaper than diesel fuel. but the cost of new vehicles and lack of fueling stations still an issue. lowes says it plans to convert its entire fleet by 2017. new york times, the new york attorney general is investigating the so-called shop and frisk racial discrimination allegations against macy's and barney's stores. a number of african-american customers who purchased expensive items say they were stopped in the stores and questioned for credit card fraud t. retailers have until friday to provide lists of every person stopped and detained over the last 84. the chicago tribune reviews for the device, the apple's ipad

air. still it remains one of the pricier tablets with a $499 pricetag. san jose news, pope frances was the main attraction at the vatican over the weekend, but it was a little boy who stole the show. the child wandered onto the stage as the pope was speaking during an event over the weekend. cardinals tried to get him off the stage, oh, i love him. he's so cute. >> oh. >> oh. oh my goodness, that is so cute. the boy apparently wanted to help pope frances out and even gives the pontiff a big hug. the vatican posted this photo on instagram. oh. showing the boy taking a breather and sitting in his chair. >> that is so fantastic. >> oh, i love that kid. >> that's delicious. >> that is awesome. >> you see, they try to give him a piece of candy. >> he took it. >> i'm going to the pope. >> it didn't stop him. >> oh, that's great.

everybody is notice in the politico playbook. >> it's unbelievable. >> some people can be a president. everybody can be a president. president and ceo. >> what else? >> of politico and capital. how privileged. this is a great honor, sir. >> what does your son think of that? >> you ask him about it, he would seem thoroughly unimpressed with his father. >> you may want to work on that. >> he is privately very impressed. i'm likable enough. >> his son is the cutest thing in the world. >> politico, capitol of new york. prediction, the pope will be "time's" man of the year? >> i think he will be a lot of those things. he's really going to change the church. for the better. >> the entire segment. all right. >> we don't have to talk about

the playbook. i thought we would. >> no problem. >> let's talk about rand paul. he became came in yesterday and said he will hold up president obama's nom nangs of janet yelp enas fed chair. >> he is using this as a bargaining chip. >> legislation his father did for years for the hold up the fed. rand paul said i will hold this up in the house if we don't get a vote. he has been waiting forever for a vote in the senate. rand paul unlike cruz and some others has played politics smartly this year. i think he picks his targets that make a lot of sense for what he is trying to do for 2016, whether on use of drones, now the fed. he captain low profile during the government shutdown to me, i never underestimate when he thinks he's on to an issue. >> if there is a relationship, i'm forge again, hoping they get a speedy confirmation. there is the nomination between her nomination and the feds.

ted cruz. he wants the government accounting office to do an audit of how the fed implements its monetary policies. it's not unrelated. >> by the way, most americans would say, why not? why shouldn't they? she's got to be one of the most powerful people in the world, why does the fed operate in secret? >> exactly. >> why it operates the dick tracy? >> i hit this thing on my watch, it's two weeks ago, i don't know how to turn it off. >> who wears a watch. >> is that a calculator watch? >> no, it's a timex. >> there is a connection. americans can understand that. >> no doubt. eventually, he'll give it up. the whole process of putting a hold on legislation is as mysterious as the operation of the fed. you can do it to make a point on getting an audit to the fed. >> so talk about whose rand paul

has done it right politically. >> correct. >> his filibuster on the drone strike. i mean, it's all made sense. it's all been very tactical and very smart and we talked to you about how ted cruz is blotting himself up among the larger population, marco rubio, i am hearing more and more people it's amazing how he missed out. this is matt lewis writing in the daily caller what a terrible year it's been for marco rubio. he seemed to stumble through 2013, hasn't he? >> i couldn't agree more. we wrote about him earlier this year, the opportunity how smartly he played the early days to differentiate himself from the rest of the public field. he surrendered, gave into all the pressure from the right. now, he's calling for a piecemeal approach to immigration reform, which is the opposite of what he was doing six months ago. >> then he overreached along

with ted cruz, which, florida ain't texas. >> i have a good feel for this. how do you navigate this wild bunch that is the republican party right now in a way you can eventually win the nomination. >> you tell people what you believe in. >> governor christie model. >> immigration reform, he needed to say the same thing on english language radio station, spanish radio station. i've said it before. i'll say it again, nobody ever stops you when you are going 90 miles an hour, if he was going 90 miles an hour in support of immigration reform and very aggressive about it, actually attacking poem that opposed him. even in his own party, you know, quoting the "wall street journal," quoting other small government conservatives, he would have done well, but -- >> it would have been hard now, he would have benefitted tremendously. >> he would have benefitted down the road and been a rock rib

conservative. >> can he still recover here? >> it will be hard to recover before 2016, especially since rand paul is doing it right. >> you want to see strength. look at governor christie, he's going to win that race by 30 points. people are going to look, it's a democratic state. here's a guy who is pretty darn conservative who can wrap up a vick try like that. being strong over the trajectory of several years, it is tough in the short term because you are getting clobbered. >> we all remember chris christie coming here, having a 32% approval rating and literally not giving a dam. he didn't care. >> fed up. >> he told us on camera. it paid off. it's interesting looking at your twitter feed and looking at e-mails and letting that shape what you believe. you don't belong in the job, anyway. >> if you are worried about what bloggers are saying about you. >> or callers. >> callers into your office. >> that, by the way, one of the

knocks on rubio from people around him, at least earlier this year he spent way too much time self obsessing what people are writing about. you have to, as much as we'd like people to read what we write, if are you a politician, you got to brush it off. have your compass set. >> go to the mound, throw strikes. >> that's what joe used to do when you trashed him in those early pieces. look at him now, you are on the top of the world. your show. >> i didn't think about it. >> good to see you back. >> good point, willie. coming up, the red sox close out the world series at fenway park tonight. peter gammons and mike barnicle join us at 6:00. for speed... ♪ ♪ ...intelligence...

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. >> let's calm it contracttual obligation. game sixt fenway tonight. they could wrap it up. we figure a great game 7 tomorrow on halloween. we are seeing rain and snow moving through new england this morning. again, temperatures will be warming up during the day. i'm not too concerned of a rain or a wash. showers are possible even later on this evening. in the boston era, we will be dealing with temperatures that will be very warm, should be about 58, 56 degrees or so.

willie, one thing that's interesting, talking to barnicle, tonight the wind will be blowing out of the south 20 miles an hour. >> that heads over the green. >> oh, dear lord. >> it could be a lot more runs than people think. >> what are temperatures? >> should be 55 to 60. >> it's great. like palm beach, i love it. i'm wearing my bathing suit. >> joining us now from boston mlb network peter gammons, mike barnicle. peter, good morning. set the stage for us. >> good morning. >> game six, they haven't won a world series red sox fenway since 1918, cardinals have the kid going who has been almost untouchable in the post-season, what do you expect tonight? >> i actually think wacha will prich i pitch brilliantly. it makes for a great game, john lackey did close out the 2002 world series. he has a chance to do it twice in his career, which is pretty

remarkable. you know, i don't think home field has been a huge factor in this series since game one, just because i mean that i think the two best baseball towns in america, but there is so much passion. both of these teams are so actually deny any negativity. i can see wacha and joe kelly coming out, pitching brilliantly in six or seven for the cardinals. >> talk about the unpredictability, people coming up to you and others, what is going to happen? yet, we've had one game ended by the interference call, a second game by pickoff at 1st base. my view is people ask me, what's going to happen? i have no idea, what about you? >> i have the same feeling. that's what i love about this series. it's so unpredictable. to have one game or another decided by one or two runs, the unusual ending to these games is great. there have been so many feeling, it goes back to the person

league championship series the red sox no hit into the sixth inning three times. there has been that tension factor. brian butterfield the red sox 1st base coach like two guys throwing punches at each other for a week. it really has had that feeling. other than david ortiz, there isn't a lot of glamour to it. at the same time, that's what makes it fun. they're teams that seem to absolutely come to the ballpark every day saying, we can't possibly lose. >> that's the thing, peter, this series, people are talking romantically about it. both of you just did. is this the type of series that brings baseball you know beyond the nfl conversation? what is it doing for the overall audience and baseball in america? >> well, i think it's the fact that it's st. louis and boston. i think that's very important. i think the cast of characters is important, rather than the big marquee free agent stars

that sell in certain cities. i mean, yes, david ortiz is something of a icon but he was signed for $1.5 million originally by the red sox. so he's not a guy that was brought in from somewhere else and there is no mercenary feeling to these teams. there is a history behind them. there is a lot of fun behind them and it's, i think it's more of a fan's series than, you know, the big market huge megacontract guys being the stars. >> yeah. >> one of the things, joe, peter mentioned, the tension, pro-football is a great sport. the nfl cannot match the constant attention of these guys. >> no, really can't. it's been unbelievable for the sox the cardinals, same thing, the cardinals have had an incredible run. they were down 2-1 against the pirates. they came back. this is a nightmare.

i haven't slept in like a month. people want to know, why i'm losing my mind. >> three hours of sleep for a week, but it has been unbelievably tense. i got to say about ortiz, has anybody seen a guy that's dialled in, in october as this guy? it's like he can hit anything, you know, he lifts that foot up. you can just tell. >> they're pitching around him. >> they're pitching around him. he's playing whiffle ball. it's like wiffle ball in the back yard. >> it's incredible. if he's not getting the hit, he's walking. he is hitting like 750 or something like that. it's completely outrageous what he's doing. >> i can say this quickly. claire miskass kill complains we don't have st. louis cardinals on this show, we do, harold ford and john meacham are cheering for the cardinals. that's why we have them off set. here is one cardinal fan. can we find one other cardinal fan in the house?

>> i think we have meacham tied up downstairs. >> it will be a big day at fenway. who knows. we will be talking to you about a game seven, we'll see. watch peter live from mlb tonight leading up to game six on fox and "morning joe" way too early live at fenway park tomorrow morning starting at 5:30 a.m. eastern time. coming up next, mika's must-read opinion pages. we will be right back with more "morning joe." ♪ i started part-time, now i'm a manager.n.

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. >> okay. washington post in a swirl at the white house, she writes in part this, the obstacles if not fixed in time threaten to undermine the product. if the young invincibles who are

essential to making insurance affordable are deterred from signing up the president's vaunted product will be pricier, the spectacular botching of the launch does not, republican wishing aside, pine that the program is doomed, but it means toed a men strar an enterprise this complex. in the physical world, entropy is an irreversible process. in the political world, luckily, for the president, it is possible to bring order out of chaos. now would be a good time to start. sam stein. >> i agree with. that i think the part that the administration has is everyone justifiably is focused on this broken promise, you can keep the coverage you have. the natural follow-up question of what kind of follow-up you can get is not answered because this website is glitchy. it's not working properly. now from my reporting and the sources i talked to, the process is getting better in terms of

the website. they till have an issue in the back end. until they resolve that back end issue, this whole thing is not going to work, ruth is right, you need to sign up these young people. >> is the president's credibility damaged in a terrible way because these numbers suggest you can't get the same coverage for the same price? how do you get around that credibility issue? >> i think this is a big problem. if i were the white house political operation, i would be concerned about this. you know, middle class people will start wondering why or what they did to lose their coverage. it's until they start getting the benefits of better coverage and the tax subsidies that come with it, which will make that coverage in many cases cheaper than the ones they currently have, that they won't understand or won't feel good towards obama, let's say. so that's why this whole rollout matters, they need to show the benefits of this in addition to the pain it was causing. >> still ahead the ceo of america's largest private health exchange joins us, how he is offering to bail out the government's troubled website.

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this is so exciting. on monday, november 11th, joe will be at miller theater to talk about his brand-new book "the right path" perfect time for "the right path" don't agree with it?

it's probably what the party needs. >> ronald reagan. >> meacham, you know about this, because you will be there. >> yes. >> you can get free admission to the event by accepting your name to seejoe@msnbc.com. you can buy that book on amazon. what is it out next week? >> it's out. >> the 12th. a week from tuesday. so exciting. up next, we'll talk with chuck todd, plus a man that knows a little about launching a website. i need to talk to you, richard, he joins us at the table. we'll be right back with more "morning joe."

s >> if we have a society where a bad medical bill could move them out of their house into abject poverty, that's unsustainable. that's not how we move the

economy forward. >> that itself not how he move the economy forward. everybody needs access to bake health care. ♪ >> wow, look at that live shot. >> it's still dark out there. 7:00. we change the clocks this week. so it will be a bit darker. >> oh my gosh. >> that is so depressing. >> that's why the english wrote tragedies. >> i don't even know what that means. i just know it's depressing, i look out, it's dark. >> okay. welcome back to "morning joe." >> can you pop in the nerd world? >> so it's going to be like 60 degrees tonight at fenway. >> that's good. >> is that good? >> that's good. >> definitely watch us.

i just want the cardinal fan, cardinal nation to know how much we respect them. >> i do. my dad grew up a cardinals fan. >> i love the red sox tonight. >> it really might be the best sports town. >> they're incredible. i can tell you. the cardinal fan base is as good as it gets. the organization is the best organization in baseball right now. what they're able to do year in, year out, what is it like seven of the nine starters are from franchise. this is a franchise that's built from the bottom up. and, you know, gammons was talking about neither one of these teams fill, they bought a championship, it kind of felt that way in fenway in 2007. it was kind of weird, 2004 was a special year. 2007 was kind of, yeah, okay. we won, that's really awesome, but kind of didn't like the way you did it. this year because we dumped $250

million in payroll and good things happen. >> exact lip. >> but the cardinals, man, from the ground up, every year. >> and the run they've had, if they were playing in new york, we would be talking about this great dynasty, they would be legend. they get to this point almost every year over the last five, six, seven years. >> the front office, you got to look at what the red sox did in 2002, 2003, 2004, leading up, that's remarkable. you have to go back like the braves did, i think that's the only parallel to this cardinal's organization. we will keep talking about it. >> will you talk about i. seriously, you can talk about it hours and hours. they should be in the guinness world book of records. >> it's unbelievable what they do every year. >> it's been an incredible year, they have a rookie, home grown on the mound. he's their latest star.

>> st. louis and cincinnati, those were the southern teams forever. >> exactly and joining the table, msnbc analyst, vice president and executive editor of msnbc richard wolf. >> liverpool man. >> channel 8 sports group. what a year these guys are having. >> seriously. unbelievable. >> they weren't supposed to be good in baseball this year. they weren't supposed to be that good, liverpool and both of these teams. >> unbelievable. deadly duo. >> they put the right people in place. >> working on the goalkeeper issue. >> oh, no. we got no issue there. he's just making it up as he goes along. >> he's going to start things off. he's going to go. >> oh, my god, bay wolf. this morning, president obama

will be in boston to speak about the affordable care act while hhs kathleen sebelius speaks on capitol hill. she is expected to blame contractors with healthcare.gov, saying they did not meet expectations. late last night, darrell issa released documents saying one of the contractors warned the government agency there was not enough time to adequately test the website. yesterday, marlin tavenner apologized and was asked when we will see how many people signed up for coverage through the obama dare exchanges. >> you have no number on people enrolled, so you will have no idea? >> we will have those numbers mid-november. >> i understand you will publicly relows those numbers, do you have an idea on a weekly

basis, how do you not know how many people have enrolled? >> jeremy kemp, we will have those numbers mid-november. >> you have been described as a quarterback of the obama care rollout. i'm sure that's not a term you chose for yourself. but can you guarantee no american will experience a gap in their health care? >> so what i can guarantee is that we have a system that's working. we will improve the speed of that system. >> excuse me. >> yes. >> you are saying the system right now is working? >> i am saying it's working, it's just not working at the speed that we want and at the success rate that we want. >> down the system is working? >> the white house now has to address the issue, no, of millions of americans having their current insurance policies cancelled because they did not meet the minimum standard of obama care or upgrade it however you want to put i. white house secretary jay carney said americans should look to the insurers for an explanation. >> part two.

>> basically, throw you off that plan telling you after a year or two that it was changing and said, here's your new option because your plan has changed, that that new plan is grandfathered in, how can that be? you can't grandfather a plan in 2010 na didn't come into existence in 2012 or 2011. it's not about fault t. insurers are in the leadup to these marketplaces are doing what they had always done. >> all right, the most heated exchange came when a democratic congressman took issue with republicans that suggesting they've offered an alternative to obama care. take a look. >> we lost the policy fight and what did we do? we went back to our districts and we told our seniors although we voted no, we personally believe and we'll work with the bush administration to make it work. that's what we did and how many of you stood up to do that? none. zero. zero.

>> well, will the gentleman yield? >> yes, i will. >> i will just tell you. >> where are you? >> right here. you asked a question, i'm going to answer it. it's a false choice to say it's obama care or nothing. there are numerous proposals, including the one that i'm a co-sponsor of. >> i yield back, i take back the time, sir. let me take the time back. are you serious what you just said? are you really serious? after what we have gone through, after what we have gone through in the last three-and-a-half years? have you, you can sit there and say that you had a legitimate alternative after these years? we've gone through 44 votes, 48 votes now of you trying to dismantle this legislation. you call that cooperation? i don't. >> okay. he is the greatest that every was. that was awesome. did you see him going like this? >> he may not have a lot in common with chris christie idea

logically, there is a style. >> oh. there was a point what he said. it was fantastic. >> i don't know about that. >> that was effective. >> that's someone who comes from this part of the world. that's so jersey, also so pat terson, new jersey. that's where he is from. >> is he serious? what was the answer to that? guess what, there was not one. >> harry reid won't let it on the floor. listen, i don't want to step on the one good democratic moment of the month, so i'll be quiet and go to richard. >> richard. >> hello. >> you just launched a website. >> i did. yes. if you want to understand the background go to msnbc right now. on that site is a great story by jeff kelly, veteran health care reporter used to work for this flate man right here kwofricove care for years. >> i loved that debate. >> it was a real debate. >> yes, it was, so, having launched a website recently.

>> yeah. >> it's not fun, is it? >> not fun. look, you can't really compare these two enterprises, why not? it's "morning joe," so let's do that. >> oh my god. why? >> is that insulting? >> i think he was. >> no. do we make comparisons is that what he says? he says we're like clobbering a baby seal. >> like killing baby seals, exactly. >> you got to let me finish my point. i yield back. look, what we did was huge and ambitious and everything but nothing compares to this boast that they've tried to put together with this health care. and the promises. >> can i say something, huge liam bishs, right, you did, not comparative and it wasn't easy, was it? and there were some glitches, now, admit it? >> always, with every website. listen, when you start something like this, you have a couple choices to make. do you promise the moon and say we're going to have this huge

scope, that's to say, not only can you enroll and sign up for health care? but you will get a reply. you will find out if you are verified on five different levels. this will go out to 55 agencies and contractors, you will find out in that instant, it's very hard to actually apply for a credit card on that basis. so they made big promises. they refused to move their schedule when they couldn't make those promises. the scope and zul were the two things that bring down these two technological projects. they should have reduced the promise, said, hey, you can sign up, we will tell you by mail if you are signed up or push back the deadline, pushing back the deadline was impossible because of political reasons. so they fell into a classic trap. that's where the promises and the politics and the time line, they weren't listening to the contractors anymore saying, we're not going to make this. now, i am impressed at how quickly they are fixing this stuff. the fixes they are already putting in place are pretty significant. so a lot of politics right now. this website looks like it's

going to work and in a really quick time frame. >> wow. richard, you have written two very fine books about the president. >> thank you. >> talk about how this rollout reflects or doesn't reflect the president's character and style. >> so this has been a problem about management and the kinds of, you know, we can look on the surface level and say, well, he said certain things he shouldn't have, there are other things in terms of the messaging, particularly about what coverage people in individual marketplace are going to get right now that they never did, they never solved this properly from the beginning and there is a whole issue there around all of the people, including the president who think they're good at communications but actually have stumbled repeatedly about communications. >> that has been a running theme for them. the other piece of it though is this management question. that's something i dug into in

my recent book about the last campaign, which is they had this image, this myth that they were the no drama team, they were supremely well managed and that was true in the first campaign. the second campaign, even on their tech projects, where they have a tremendously good press, right, they were the world's greatest tech campaign because, you know, romney couldn't launch an app that wouldn't crash, right? so the bar was really low in terms of the comparison. if you look at the management operation of the campaign, second time around, very different, extremely messy. you look at the management in government, very messy. it's been very hard for them to do anything without moving out of this closed inner circle. and so the other follow through problem, there is a management question here. there is also a myth making question, which is to say very successful in projecting an image, ultimately, if that image doesn't stack up to reality, will you get found out. when you think about what you can do as an administration

second term, this was it. so getting it wrong does suggest they weren't focused on what they could actually achieve in the second term. i have no doubt they will get it right in the end. in the end, it can cost them a lot of votes. >> let's go to washington, bring in chuck todd, obviously, we are talking about management right here, you know, the problem here is we don't talk from the beginning about over the past year about how difficult second terms are, well, the president hasn't gotten what he wanted this year, the second term and this is a problem that's blowing up from the first term. it seems like things are getting tougher for the white house as we move along and do you have any indication that they get that and are adjusting appropriately? >> i think they get it, but i don't get the sense that they're fully in an ad judgment mode. i feel like they're in a bunker mentality right now, they're simply hunkering down, ultimately, i think they think

their entire second term will be judged on the implementation of health care, so they have this, so, maybe it's right that they have a bunker mentally that says all hands on deck, whatever it takes to fix this website, but i want to pick up on something that richard just said because i thought he put it so much morel gantly than i have been trying to do, which is this myth making issue. >> no doubt. he called it myth making. i have been trying to refer to it as simply they are always afraid to project any image other than strength and it's almost they're afraid to admit something might not work or they're afraid to admit that something may not meet an expectation. so they end up finding themselves over prom promising or saying, we are still learning more, we just read about it in news reports. they're so afraid of being caught as if they, maybe that somebody in the chain of command didn't tell the president something or they're so afraid

to admit that maybe the website wasn't going to launch perfectly on day one or to admit that some people's individual health care policies weren't going to be available. we're going to change and it's like they were so worried about the image and the spin, that they've, you know, ended up creating their on pr problem. this problem they're dealing with right now is of their own making. they easily could have come out and said, this is going to be very difficult. this is going to be very complicated. for most americans, you will not notice. but for the 20% of americans that have had cruddy health care coverage for years, this transition is going to seem scary to you. we're going to do everything we can to make it less scary. say something like that. >> yeah. >> and, you know what, you buy time. you boo i the public's patience, it's more honest. >> you think they were so busy on the defense because of the political problems that that didn't happen. that's a really good point. >> behind closed doors, chuck, in private conversations you have with the white house, how

genuinely concerned are they about the state of affairs, not the fact that the website doesn't work, the impact it may have long term on the affordable care act, do they view, this is a bump in the road, once it is implemented, this phase, this month will be forgotten by history as an early speed bump to what turns out to be a great program they feel? >> oh, no, they're very nervous. they know they look at this december window as a pretty important window, in fact, in the history of the math of this planet how it works in massachusetts, this last month of enrollment before it goes, before coverage kicks in on january 1, yes, open enrollment goes through march, december is the month for them. zooes december is sa big testing month. they are very concerned. they want to get this up and running. they set that november 30th deadline. they have no choice. if it's not working by then, they got much bigger problems. suddenly they may be set back a 84 to get the young and healthy

involved. so, no, this is not. they hope it looks like a bump in the road in the veer view mirror, they're not treating it like that. >> i want to get one more story to the u.s. heated senate in wyoming. and that issue is whether enzi is embellishing his close ties to the cheney family and to cheney's famous father. here's what the former vice president said earlier this week. >> michaels said he and i are fishing buddies, which is simply not true. never happened. >> but senator enzi. >> i love that guy. >> pushing back -- >> is that as much as i love him. >> not in most states. >> quote. i anchored the one fly fishing contest with him one time and i was asked to speak at his induction in the fly fishing hall of fame, and we've talked about fishing when wove been together. senator enzi. >> come on now. come on. you know what, if you are a

fishing buddy, you know what you are doing, you are fishing with your buddy, are you not in tournaments. what did you call him a minute ago, a nerd? >>let move on from. do you remember when enzi did this to edwards. he said, i have never met you until we came on this stage today. this is a cheney trademark. it turned out not to be the case. >> if i were the editor of msnbc.com, i would run this aground. >> he did the same in the first vice presidential debate with joe lieberman, he said, oh, we're really buddies, but there aren't buddies in the democratic party because they're all crazies. the whole cheney thing is special for him. he thinks this is the killer the kryptonite. >> i got to say, everybody thought, chuck, that dick cheney was going to lose both of those debates. i think he ate them both whom.

i just wouldn't cross dick cheney. he's pretty good at this stuff. >> his political instinct and his, have always been masterful and spot on i think when it comes to behind the scene advice, reading the tea leaves and performing and frankly, let's call what it it is, performing on television. those debates, interviews, things like that. the question is, does that pass down to liz cheney? does liz cheney have that same touch? vice president cheney is tough and has a life touch at the same time. it's the interesting combination that he'll knife you very quietly. he doesn't do it. it's not allowed a loud. it's not what ted cruz does, chuck schumer, same thing. this islight touch he has. the question i have in that race if liz cheney got the ability to be wyoming, oout wyoming enzi.

that's clearly. >> that's going to be tough. >> that's going to be tough. yes, she grew up there as a kid, a virginia girl as she grew up. so it's going to be, i think that's her challenge. >> all righty, chuck, we will see you coming up on the daily rundown, thank you very much. >> maybe you could run for senator in idaho or something like that. >> you are funny, aren't you? >> sun valley. sun valley. >> sun valley. >> there you go. >> they love new sun valley, by the way. >> a spot in idaho. >> richard, thank you. >> thank you, richard. the website is locking great. >> msnbc.com. >> how is it? >> it's fabulous. what is it? >> i go to it 12 times a day. >> check out the group mojoers. that's where all your fans are gathering. >> you can do that, too. >> it's beautiful. >> they are talking about the show. >> are they talking right now? >> you sexy meacham is.

>> we're those shoes next time. >> check it out. >> all right, coming up next, bipartisan budget talks kick off this morning on capitol hill and given what we have seen from congress lately, expectations for a big deal especially high. we will be asking republicans pat toomey what may be at the table. you are watching "morning joe" by duncan donuts. as a business owner, i'm constantly putting out fires. so i deserve a small business credit card with amazing rewards. with the spark cash card from capital one, i get 2% cash back on every purchase, every day. i break my back around here. finally someone's recognizing me with unlimited rewards! meetings start at 11, cindy. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one. choose 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day. what's in your wallet? i need your timesheets, larry! became big business overnight? ♪

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. >> it's 25 past the hour. the sun is trying so hard to come up over washington, daylight savings this weekend, right? >> it is. >> happy halloween. >> that kind of makes me sad. >> all saints day. >> all saints day. there you go. >> thank you, meacham. joining us now republican senator from pennsylvania, pat toomey, he's a part of a select group of bipartisan lawmakers meeting in a few hours to come up with a long-term budget plan for the country. senator, thanks, so much for joining us.

>> good morning, mika, i promise you, the sun will rise today. >> you he? >> even in washington. >> really? >> i think so. >> i'm skeptical. >> if i were a politician, i would hedge. really. the polls tell me it ain't coming. >> there you go. >> why don't you tell us then about what this bipartisan group is trying to do, why you think it will actually get accomplished? >> so, technically, this is a conference committee to resolve the differences between a house passed budget and a senate passed budget, but honestly, it's very, very difficult to imagine that we could resolve all the differences because among other things, for instance the democrat passed budget in the senate calls for a trillion dollar tax increase. the republican budget calls for a zero tax increase. so i don't think we're going to resolve comprehensively a budget resolution. what we could do is reach an agreement on funding the government for the remainder of the fiscal year and avoid any kind of drama in january when the current funding bill expires. so i hope we can do something

more than. that i hope we can accomplish some real savings in the mandatory spending programs, which are actually the droifrs of our long-term fiscal imbalance, but if we request get this resolved where we stick to the spending levels that are in existing law, that were passed in 2011 and signed by president obama, substituting various alternative savings for the sequester, if we can, while maintaining the savings. i'd suggest two other things i'd like to see, number one, let's end government by crisis. let's have a measure, a standing bill that says whenever the congress doesn't finish it's appropriations process, we just have an automatic continuation at the previous year's level. let's avoid shutdowns, thirdly, finally, let's give the administration flexibility in managing through the cuts we do have. i think if we do those three things, we will save money and avoid these manufactures crises. >> sam stein, are you next.

>> senator, can you elaborate on sequestration relief? as i heard you, you said you don't want to increase the spending caps when sequestration takes effect. but you'd like to give the administration flexibility on how to manage the cuts in the various agencies. is that what you are saying is going to be the end game here? >> not entirely the story, in my view, i think we ought to be willing to ease up on some of the sequester. that's the discretionary side of government spending as you know, provided that there is an equal and offsetting savings in the mandatory spending category. so i want to capture the value of the savings, if you will. i want to make sure that we avoid spending more than we would otherwise spend, i'd be very opened to substituting more sensible ways to save money than the one wes have if place now. and that said, if the cuts do have to occur, then i think the administration should have some flexibility in doing them in the most sensible fashion, not, you know, arbitrarily across the

board. >> senator toomey, it's good to see you this morning, it's willie. you have been opened this morning and previously that your goals were more modest in the past. this so-called grand bargain doesn't appear to be on the table. what does it take if not this deal, next year, two years to get a real grand bargain if we want to use that term, which would involve revenue cuts, raising revenue on the democratic side, entitlement cuts, which is something you look for, both sides seem so far apart on that, the difference is so fundamental. do you see a day when there the a grand bargain of some kind? >> i tried hard to meet my democratic colleagues halfway, even on revenue, which was not in my view the optimum way to get there. i think it was the piece. i think the answer to your question, though, lies with the president of the united states. there is one person in this country who can bring together

both sides who can bridge some of these gaps, who can bring along his side and help us to achieve the big deal that is needed to put us on a sustainable fiscal path. i don't see that as a priority for this president so i'm not entirely optimistic. >> simpson boles has been embraced by the think tanks in d.c. as well as big parts of it. can you envision that because it has, seems to be a balance between revenue and spending cuts serving at some point as a starting point for the president, republicans, democrats alike to have a more conversation or a bigger conversation about a long-term deal? >> it's a good starting point. it's not a place i'd be comfortable ending, as you know, harold, we had big tax increases on january 1st of this year, a $600 billion tax increase went into effect with no offsetting whatsoever, for the reforms whatsoever, associated with obama care. there is over a trillion dollar

of tax increases. so we've had a lot of tax increases. tax revenue is at a record high as a percent annual of gdp, it's above its historical average. there is a lot of revenue coming in. i think we ought to be focusing on restructuring the mandatory spending. the entitlement programs so they will be viable and we're on a sustainable fiscal path. >> senator pat toomey, thank you very much. great to have you on the show. >> thanks for having me, guys. coming up, our next guest company has been selling online health insurance for 15 years. so what's his advice for obama care in the ceo of e-health joins us next when "morning joe" comes right back. thrusters at 30%! i can't get her to warp.

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>> to the millions of american was have attempted to use healthcare.gov to enroll in health coverage, i want to apologize to you the website has not worked as well as it should. i want to assure you healthcare.gov can and will be fixed. we are working around the clock to deliver the shopping experience you deserve. >> here with us the ceo of e-health, gary lower. he wrote a letter to president obama to take over the enrollment process if all 36 federal exchange states without cost to the taxpayer.

welcome to the show. >> thanks, great to be here. >> why did you do that? >> well, there has been a lot of criminal of what's been on. i feel critical as well but in a constructive way. i'm one of those people who would like to see this legislation work. i have been an early supporter since the beginning. there is enough people piling on. i think what we need to be doing is looking forward to income out ways of getting people enrolled, especially needy americans that need coverage. >> do you think you can fix the problems they are confronting right now? >> yes. >> why do you say that? >> we have been doing this years and years, we enroll in quality health insurance in all 50 states. ecommerce is a complex thing. it's a science, government is learning this. most ecommerce start-ups fail, few succeed. we have been fortunate like amazon and ebay. we have bought the the know-how, the science, we can immediately in these states enroll people in a significant way. >> how many customers have i

accommodated? could you handle the scale of this? >> we saw 20 million americans come to us last year, interestingly, over half were between the ages of 18 and 34 years of age. >> that is the prime group need to get enrolled. all the focus is on the website not working. the focus soon is going to be on enrollment and having balance in these enrollment pools, otherwise, we will have real pricing issues. that to me is a fundamental issue and a bigger calgary. why not bring the best of the government sector to gather government and make it work. >> mike. >> the rollout has been a mess. let's stipulate that. let's also stipulate that the plan as it was assembled is kind of confusing to a lot of people now. it's only been a couple of weeks. >> true. >> nothing has ever evolved in a couple of weeks of this scope. but you tell me, tell us, tell the country right now, what are the benefits of this program for the country for individuals if and when it does work? >> well, there's m. i'm a

beneficiary. i run the largest health insurance source in the country and i'm not insurable because i'm a chancer survivor. i benefit from this and a lot of other people will as well. my oldest son is a type 1 diabetic. he is not insurable. he is going to benefit. there are many, many people, children who need coverage who don't have it today with subsidies that, they will get it. it's far from perfect. there are a lot of good attributes. i'm not here to sell the legislation. i think there are a lot of good things we cannot go back on at this point. i admire the work that was done to get a lot of this in here. be i the way, secretary sebelius, for example, who has taken criticism has been supportive in terms of what we want to do in terms of helping here. even if it's a few weeks, they start to enroll people, no matter how many people they enroll, it won't be enough. and we can help to get more. that's my offer to the president and to the administration is use us. this is our expertise, this is what we do. let us help make this

successful. let's move forward. >> sam is dying. sam. >> i have a question, you were hinting at what is known as the death spiral, with i a bunch of sick and older people tend to sign up the premiums for the large pool go up. what is the drop dead data, roughly the time period in which we will know if we can avoid it or if that will happen? how much longer does the administration have to enroll young, healthy people? >> obviously, we have until march 31st. it's not just the administration, there were 14 states that back in a minute their own exchanges. what we are hearing from some of these states is the vast majority is medicaid eligible people. we need many, many more. the administration's goal is to have 7 million people enrolled by march 31st. if it's 5.5 or 6, that's going to be a problem. if it's 7, yeah, that's okay. i'd like to see it be 8 or 9. that's part of what i'm offering here. i think we need to do everything we can to get as many people enrolled, as many young people as possible. government can't do this alone.

anyone who thinks government is smarter or government will be best about ecommerce, i'm sorry, it's sadly mistaken. there are some smart people in the private sector, some affected businesses in the private sector. bring them in let them help. >> gary lauer. thank you very much. great to have you on the show. >> thank you. up next, a special adviser to jfk. his influence reached far beyond the walls of the white house t. late historian's sons, joining us next with a new collection of letters tracing 60 years of correspondence with some of the most note-worthy names of the last century. ♪

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. >> we are a frightening people because we have already in this decade murdered the two of our citizens who stood preeminently before the world as embodyments of american idealism and because last night we tried to murder a third. >> i suppose what arthur schlesinger is saying, which is is that we all had an orgy of mourning after the death of president kennedy. we indulled in one after the death of martin luther king, jr. and if senator kennedy as the los angeles times headlines says tonight is near death. if he dies, i dulg in it, too. i suppose the question schlesinger is asking, that all we do? and i suspect the evidence is that is all we do. >> the kennedy historian, reacting to the shooting, of

course, to bobby kennedy, angered the american people have become quo et the most frightening people on set, his son, arthur and steven schlesinger. they are authors o. i loved bobby, i cannot bear the thought that he, too, is gone. what kind of president would he have made? i think very likely a greater one than jfk. he was more radical than jfk. he understood better the problems of the excluded groups and he would have been coming along in a time more propitious for radical action. he would have restored the idealism of america and, you know, i never knew that your father felt that way about bobby. i, of course, read his

extraordinary book. it's one of the reasons i got involved in public service, but i never knew he so clearly favored bobby over jfk. >> he actually was much closer to bobby than he was to jfk. i remember i used to visit him in new york when i was in law school and he'd, we'd go out to dinner with bobby every time i'd be in new york for some odd reason and there was a real closeness in their relationship and there was a real feeling that bobby actually depended on his advice in a very, you know, close way. >> and jfk too remote for his tastes? >> well, he was very, he was close to jfk. one of the letters we discovered was a four-page single-spaced typewritten critique of the manuscript of the courage and john kennedy wrote arthur saying, please be ruthlessly frank and my father was

rigorously frank, not ruthlessly frank, i think that established a relationship. remember rnths remember, john kennedy was our congressman in cambridge, massachusetts. my father was in joe kennedy's past. and so this letter about profiles on congress established, it shows the kind of frank forthright, trusting relationship that they brought to the white house. >> i thought it was fascinating one thing in bobby's wife, it may be why he loved him so much was he he evolved from being a hardened, really, conservative, but a hardened, you know, son of a bitch, conservative, tough guy, i say that so many people called bobby. yet, he grew so much from the mid-50s to 1968. >> he did. you know, i think there is no question that not only did he grow in his liberalism, because

he was quite conservative in the '50s, but he also, the profanity of his brothers as assassinatio it was devastating. he struggled for a long time. back to the conversations i was privy to when my father saw bobby in new york. he was questioning whether god existed or not. that was 1967. that was a shattering experience. >> john, arthur schlesinger actually wrote during the lead-up to 1968 how he was basically talking to the ghost of his brother and trying to struggle with this epic decision. >> yeah, as a historian, i think arthur appreciated the narrative arc of rfk's life. there is a letter andrew and stephen found in the book from 1954 i think where arthur cites pretty harsh things about bobby. and slowly as rfk changed and

matured, arthur appreciated that. i think helped enormously as well. one of the things you find in the book is politicians from eleanor roosevelt, adelaide stephenson to bill clinton and al gore sought his council, because of that candid he gave them, it was always caring, warm in a way, but boy was it bracing. he pulled no punches. >> the letters are strikingly honest, strikingly honest, many of them. and it provides you a window into the lost art of letter writing. i don't know whether people are going to be putting up several books of e-mails in the future, but the expressions of the letters are really unique. arthur schlesinger wrote jackieden kennedy after her husband was assassinated. dearest jackie, nothing i can say request mitigate the shame

and horror of this day, your husband was the most brilliant and able and inspieshing member of my generation. he was the one man to whom this kund u country could confide its destiny with confidence and hope. he animated everything -- he led with passion and wit. your family and one small slice of his life, yet, it evoked such emotion in him, both with the president and with robert kennedy and i'm wondering, what impact that had on the two of you, his relationship with that family, your view of the world through that prism? >> well, i tell you. it had a real profound impact. because we grew up with my father in the white house and then to have the assassination occur and then to have him involved with bobby and then have another assassination occur, it was very destabilizing kind of experience, even though we were not directly involved.

>> well, because if it's our experience mirrored the nation's experience. perhaps it was more personal and, but, as you remember, it was a shattering time in the '60s in retrospect looked pretty rough. >> yeah, these are remarkable letters, john. you guys have done a great job and what makes it so special, extra special is baseball. >> i got to put on my baseball cap for tonight. we still have a chance. >> we'll get some letters about. arthur loved lost >> arthur loved lost causes too. >> it's not a lost cause. >> thank you. we appreciate it. good to see you again. the book is the letters. arthur slessinger jr. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. (vo) you are a business pro.

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. >> up next, secretary sebelius will be in the hot seat. the questions she will be ready to answer as problems with obama care continue to pile up. need to know how to wrestle an alligator. they will give us a lesson on

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>> we lost the policy fight and what did we do? we went back to our districts and told our seniors we voted no. we personally believe and will work with the bush administration to make it work. that's what we did. how many of you stood up to do that? none. zero. zero. >> will the gentlemen yield? >> yes, i will. >> i will just tell you that -- right here. you ask a question and i'm going to answer it. it's a false choice to say obama care or nothing. there numerous proposals. >> i take back the time, sir. let me take the time back. are you serious? what you just said? are you really serious? after what we have gone through?

what we have gone through in the last 3 1/2 years. you can sit there and say that you had a legitimate alternative after these years. we have gone through 48 votes of you trying to dismantle legislation. you call that cooperation? i don't. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 on the west coast as you take a live look at new york city. >> it's beautiful. >> time to wake up. we have john meachem. he's going to say grand things. harold ford, jr. in washington if he doesn't have to go home to his plumber. we have a lot to get to. that was fantastic. did you see the guy's face?

he couldn't because he had nothing to say. >> either do i. for once. >> this morning president obama will be in boston. i know you invited him. >> you want to go to the game? >> i didn't realize i was invited until now. >> not for the red sox, but to speak about the affordable care act, but kathleen sebelius is expected to blame contractors. >> the profiling period. caroline kennedy. >> saying they did not meet expectations. >> the private sector's false. who is in charge of that? >> however the oversight committee chairman released do you means showing one of the primary contractors had warned the government agency that there was not enough time to

adequately test the website. yesterday the woman in charge of the obama care market place testified before congress and apologized for issues with the site and asked about when we will see people actually signed up and how many people signed up for coverage through the obama care exchanges. >> no numbers on who is enrolled? >> we will have the numbers available mid-november. >> you are not publicly releasing the numbers, but i am asking do you have any idea of on a weekly basis how many enrolled. how do you not know how many people enrolled? >> we will have the numbers available mid-november. >> you have been described as the quarterback of the obama care numbers. i'm sure that's not the term you chose. can you guarantee no american will experience a gap in health care? >> what i can guarantee is that we have a system that is

working. we will improve the speed of that system. >> excuse me. you are saying the system is working? >> it's working, just not at the speed and success rate we want. >> i don't understand how this problem goes on. it goes on and on. yesterday she went there. she is in charge of running the program. she didn't have the answers when it came to how many were enrolled and didn't have answers on whether there would be a gap in the coverage. every official i talked to said there will be americans caught in that gap. they will not have coverage because of this. no answers. politico was write being it yesterday going it's shocking that they remain so ill-prepared to answer the most basic questions about a system to implement about the way health care is delivered. >> clearly she was put in an

awful position. >> come on. they don't want to give the answers. i guarantee the president of the united states knows how many people have enrolled as of yesterday. i guarantee you that the chief of staff does. everybody in the west wing has a chart that shows how many people have enrolled in the program. if she was put in a bad position because they told her you can't tell the truth. >> either you don't go before the committee or you tell what you know. at some point, john knows having covered so many presidents and done so much research and what it takes to be successful, this is not the path you want to travel. i know kathleen sebelius and i like and trust her, but i would imagine going for the committee and repeating what the director said here can't be good for the administration and ultimately won't be good in the short and

near term for the program itself. they will have to tirchger and make changes overtime. the real question is if indeed -- >> if and when the period has to delay, when they suggested it would be six months, the question is i was surprised that didn't come or we didn't see coverage of that. >> john said again yesterday the argument we heard almost a month now, the crushing low of the man. obama care caused the problems with the website. it wasn't just kathleen sebelius. they said cgi federal is to blame. do you think they are glad they took the contract? that doesn't pass the smell test. too many people are trying to sign up. we moved beyond that.

>> except for barnacle. that's still on the website trying to sign up. i have been trying to think of an analogy here. what has been like this. the potential long-term impact. stipulating that these are imprecise. this is the way the progressive equivalent of declaring ketchup a vegetable. the website problems have the potential for a generation to be used as an argument against government-run programs. it may not be fair. the first thing may not have been fair, but this is like a $600 toilet seat in the pentagon and ketchup is a vegetable. it will be used for years and years. the difference fairly or unfairly, you can't make a face on this one. this is a problem, a self-inflicted wound for people who believe in the public

sector. it just is. you disagree? >> they rushed it when they shouldn't have rushed it. david ignatius had a great insight. he said this was not overreached. it was. the democrats shoved it through. they blew up the rules. forget the filibuster. they have a majority. they didn't have the support of the american people. they said more importantly, i thought this was a great point. it was an overreach. it was too much. they can't handle this. the federal government as it is currently constructed cannot handle this. >> they should have been able to. >> i agree with that. >> don't agree with that. it was a political overreach? >> but not a policy overreach. this was a poor job. they knew they were not going to and as a result it rays real questions about whether the government and public entities

can manage. >> here to my mind is one more early grand point. >> please do. >> i'm not going to mention it yet. >> at the moment until there is some sort of transformative presidential congressional leadership that i don't see on the horizon, this is the way it's going to be. this is the new normal. >> we have a bunch of stuff to get to. turning to the ongoing question with the surveillance of america's allies, the "wall street journal" reports the data was given to the u.s. by european intelligence services and not collected by the nsa. that could complicate the situation for several foreign leaders who have criticized the obama administration's programs and recent disclosures about spying were meant to shame america's top spy, it didn't work. here's nbc's andrea mitchell.

>> under fire from the moment they walked in, intelligence chiefs were confronted about their spying on angela merkel and other foreign leaders. >> would we apologize? >> the spy agencies were not apologizing, claiming that all countries spy. >> some of this reminds me of the movie casa blanca. there is gambling going on here. it's the sim kind of thing. >> do you believe the allies have conducted or at any time any type of espionage activity against the united states of america, our intelligence services, leaders or otherwise? >> absolutely. >> they denied reports of mass phone records people in france and spain. what is infuriating europe is the eavesdropping. hollande, merkel and 30 leaders in all. an invasion of privacy the u.s. has not denied.

how president obama didn't know as the white house claims. >> if the president didn't know, he certainly should have known. one would think if he didn't know, he would have demanded the resignations of those who should have briefed him. >> current and former officials said obama may not have known about merkel, but would know they spied on foreign leaders including friends. >> the president and his council should have known. >> the most powerful politician grew up in communist east germany, but being eavesdropped by the u.s.? >> don't under estimate her. she has a long memory and this will be a harsh problem for the american relations for the next years. >> first of all, did you see that picture with barack obama's

arm around her? she doesn't want to be touched. look at that. this is a chance to be post partisan, remember? >> that's what i'm saying. >> she still has post traumatic stress. >> hubs her shoulder and she flinches. >> hey, text me later. >> stop, stop, stop. okay? joining us now from washington. former director of the nsa and cia, our friend of the show, general michael hayden. good to have you back on the show. >> thank you. did george w. bush because we were talking about this yesterday, did george w. bush tap -- >> did the bush administration do this type of monitoring? >> of leaders.

>> of course we did. i'm not going to get into specifics here, but this is normal behavior between nation states. this is an r-rated movie and how adult nations treat one another. let me give you a concrete example that might be useful. president obama was related to his blackberry when he was waiting to come into office and folks like me were saying this is a big deal. we finally worked out a compromise and threw a couple of defensive tools in. now he uses the blackberry. let me give you the backdrop to that story. the most powerful man on earth, the most powerful man and nation on earth was told his communications were susceptible to intercept by dozens of morn embassies inside his own national capital. we didn't render our garmins and

protest. we realize that's the way things are. >> 1578 stein has a question for you. >> i was shocked to see dianne feinstein demand more accountability. her going after the nsa is like joe biden going an amtrak. from your perspective, are you concerned about too much oversight or do you acknowledge there needs to be more disclosure and transparency about the practices? >> i am fully in favor of more disclosure and transparency. it's an easy do to the committees. it's another thing how much you want to make public to the american public. the really interesting question is now the demand is europe public want to be told how we spy. he asked the watergate question, what did the president know and when did he know it. a foreign leader asking that

shows where the center line of the current conversation now rests. we need to push that back towards the middle. >> sort of listening to dianne feinstein being shocked that this was going on reminded me of dianne feinstein and i'm sure you too. jay rockefeller and other democrats being shocked in 2006 at the programs we were doing in 2002 and 2003 that they were briefed on. >> i guess they were playing for the stands? >> i don't want to imput them. senator feinstein has been a supporter in the current climate, a strong defender of nsa. let me tell you the danger here. we have seen this before. we have done it at least once in the 1990s. intelligence was pulled back from an active stance with regard to human intelligence collection because they were told we don't want you guys

talking any longer to bad people. we could have the same effect now if we tell our intelligence that under no circumstances will they be allowed to listen to good people. we are going to find ourselves less knowledgeable and more in danger if that's how we come out of this. >> thank you. coming up on "morning joe," we will check in with politico and reviews are in for ipad air. are the features worth the $500 price tag? fresh numbers show the bailout of general motors left a hole in taxpayers's pockets. why the government is nearly $10 billion in the red. first, bill has a check on the forecast. >> i know you guys are interested in the forecast and the red sox games. we will get to that. we have a lot of rain and severe weather to get to. a lot of travel issues. light rain from south of d.c. all the way back to areas of kentucky.

later on this afternoon, the strong storms out of the rockies and severe weather. if you are in the kansas city area through wichita and springfield through the dallas ft. worth areas, you not only have travel issues, but you will see significant delays. kansas city with a chance of these all day with the rain and the storms. oklahoma in the morning and dallas and san antonio in the evening hours. one to two or three. this is going to washout a lot of people's halloween and the ohio valley down through texas. just a few chances of hit and miss showers. very warm for this time of year and a gusty south wind. the weather shouldn't be much of a factor. st. louis should be able to see the arch, but dense fog. once the fog lifts, it's going to get warm. thunderstorms into tomorrow. not a pretty forecast towards halloween.

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time to take a look at the morning papers from the parade of papers, "the washington post." the u.s. government is reporting a loss of $9.7 billion on the $50 billion bailout of general motors. the u.s. treasury reduced equity from about 60% to about 7%.

the government plans to sell remaining shares by next april, but they need to sell for about $150 each to break even. gm stock is trading at $35.72 yesterday. >> company like u.p.s., fedex and lowe's is trying to make the switch to natural gas-fuelled trucks. it is cheaper and cleaner and the cost of new vehicles and a lack of fueling stations are still an issue. they plan on converting the entire fleet by 2017. >> "new york times" and state attorney general is investigating the shop and frisk racial discrimination allegations against macy's and barney's stores. a number of african-american customers who performed expensive items said they were stalked and questioned for credit card fraud. the retailers have until friday to provide lists of every person stopped and detained over the last year. >> chicago tribune reviews for

the ipad air indicate a major improvement of a tablet. it is thinner and lighter weighing only one pound. the ipad air remains one of the pricier tablets with a $499 price tag. >> mercury news, pope francis was the main attraction at the vatican over the weekend, but a little boy stole the show. the child wandered on the stage as the pope was speaking over the weekend. the cardinals tried to get him off the stage. i love him. he's so cute. oh, my goodness. that is so cute. the boy apparently wanted to help pope francis out and even gives the pontiff a big hug. the vatican posted this photo on instagram. showing the boy taking a breather and sitting in his chair. that is so fantastic. >> i love that kid. >> that is awesome.

>> see they give him a piece of canned tow get rid of it. >> i'll take it, but i'm going back to the pope. now with the politico playbook, some people are just president. anybody can be a president. >> what else? >>. >> the president and ceo. politico and capital new york. >> i asked him and he seems unimpressed. >> he's privately very impressed. >> i'm likeable enough. >> his son is the cutest thing in the world. >> just like that. >> the capital of new york. >> i have a prediction. >> i think he's going to be a lot of those things.

he will change the church for the better. >> thank thanks for the entire segment. >> we don't have to talk about it. >> it's a problem. >> let's talk about rand paul who said he would hold up president obama's nomination of janet yellin. he is using this as a bargaining chip. there is legislation his father pushed to do an audit of the fed and rand paul said he will hold up this nomination if we don't get a vote on this. he has been waiting forever for a vote in the senate. rand paul unlike and others have played politics smartly this year. he picks his targets in a way that make a lot of sense for what he is trying to do for 2016. the use of drones or whether it's on fed. he kept a low profile in the government shut down. i never under estimate what he thinks he is on to an issue that will resonate with his base

which is the libertarian strand. i'm for janet yellin and hope for a speedy confirmation, but there is a relationship between her nomination and the fed. he wants the government accounting office to do an audit of how the fed implements policy. it's not unrelated. >> most americans would say why not? why shouldn't they conduct an audit. why does the fed operate in secret? why does harold ford have a dick tracy. >> i hit this thing and i don't know how to turn it off on my watch. >> sorry that a calculator watch? >> no, it's just a time ex. >> i used to have one of those in school. >> it makes a lot of sense. there is a connection and americans can understand that. >> no doubt. eventually he will give it up. the process of putting a hold on

it is as mysterious as the fed. you can delay something to make a point over the fed and he will do that. >> he talked about rand paul has done it right politically. his filibuster on the drone strikes. it's all made sense and been very smart. we talked about how ted cruz has blown himself up among the larger population. he will approve 20%. marco rubio, i am hearing more and more saying it's amazing how many missteps that guy has made. matt lewis is write being what a terrible year it has been. he seemed to stumble through 2013. >> i couldn't agree more. we wrote about him earlier this year and the opportunity he had and how he had played the early base of the immigration to differentiate himself and he surrendered and gave up and in to the pressure from the right and he is calling for a peace

meal approach which is the opposite of what he was doing. i would say it. >> and he overreach and went along with ted cruz. florida hates taxes. >> you have a feel for this. how do you navigate this wild bunch that is the republican party in a way that you can eventually win the nomination? >> you tell people you believe it. >> governor christie mottle. >> if he was going to embrace immigration, he would say the same on english and spanish language radio stations. i said it before and i will say it again. nobody stops you. if he was going 90 miles an hour in support of immigration reform and very aggressive about it and attacking people who opposed him, quoting the "wall street journal," quoting other small government conservatives, he would have done well.

>> it would have been hard, but he would have benefitted tremendously. >> he would benefit down the road and been a conservative that -- >> can he still recover? >> it has to be hard to recover before 2016. >> you want to be from strength. governor christie as much as conservatives don't like him, he will win by 20 points. he can rack up a victory like that? that's where being strong and consistent over the trajectory can benefit. you are getting clobbered. >> coming up next, the southerners handbook. the editors of garden and gun magazine with the guide to living the good life. the key lessons to how to season your greats and pull off the seer sucker and how to wrestle an alligator. dave and julia join us when "morning joe" comes right back.

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>> something always happens. bad happen when is julia reid is on the set. we have another girl in our family. >> i'm excited your daughter is

there. >> i said to her julia went there. she started to cry. >> i mean the head mistresses. she was an amazing person too. do you want to talk about crime of passion. let's have a debate. >> let's set the scene. susan is going to the hot tamale festival in your town of greenville. you are driving and i'm pitching from nashville. i'm driving the mississippi delta. i said what's there? she said nothing. it's 6 and 7 and 8. it sounds a lot like the west.

>> then there was a delta. >> there was. a sponsor of the delta hut tamale festival. it was beautiful. thank you. >> cotton fields and gorgeous. your parents were unbelievable. this was the second annual. >> over 50 in the century. are we on tv yet? >> first we have the opening event. the second annual hot tamale festival. the unofficial mayor of greenville. and brought to you by the garden gun and it was all beautiful. it was in benoit, mississippi. >> the baby doghouse where carol becker was lying around in the crib and the night gown and stuff. >> speaking of babies. >> tell us about how you are

shirking your duties. >> speaking of babies. i want this baby. >> he has his first cold. >> that's a good-looking baby. >> tell us about sam. >> sam is the most unbelievable thing that happened to me and the reason i may not make sense because i haven't slept for a month. >> he's so cute. >> he follows your instagram feed and found out he had a cold and your wife called you what? >> a bastard. because i slept very well last night. >> let's make this worth your while. tell us about the southerners handbook. >> this is the first southerners handbook about the skills and traditions that southerners are known for. it's about passion. >> seceeding from the union and defending the indefensible. go ahead. >> nullification.

>> talking about food, drink, sporting culture and music. >> books. >> anything you want answered here from when to wear seer sucker to how to bet on a winning horse at the derby and how to throw a great party. >> who should wear seer sucker and who should not. >> that are is true. >> when do you wear seer sucker? for yankees who want to look like southerners, when should yankees wear seer sucker. >> sparingly. in the summer when it's really hot. you can use a jacket. you don't have to do the whole suit. you can get the effect and not lock like a -- >> like a clown. exactly. >> seer sucker is very sexy, i will have you know. >> what are these? >> these are bloody marys. my mother's bloody marys, but my

mother does not serve a sal at add on top of hers. remove that. >> let's talk about the bloody mary. >> this is what the book is about. this bloody mary is julia's mother's recipe. there traditions to get passed on from generation to generation. the secrets that people in the south know. they use them to have a good time. southerners are not afraid to have fun. julia, you top that list for people not afraid to have fun. you are talking about -- i'm not going to give you that. you talk about the secrets of being a great southern hostess. tell us about it. >> trying to throw a party where people have fun. >> i'm loving it. >> i have written this before. the tread words when i was living in new york was ding, ding, ding. table talk. i was freaking out. i would be the hostess would

demand you went around the table and i don't know what you thought about the last immigration bill or justice. orchestrated conversation like being at camp and i had to go to this christian camp and they made me say what i was thankful for and i hated it. i was not thankful for anything. >> my mom's bloody marys. >> you need to create the set and let people have fun and serve food that tastes good. >> this tastes good. what is it? >> plenty of alcohol. >> i did not know it was alcohol. >> i do sweet tea, a love story which i think i had, speak of babies. i had that in my bottle at an early age. >> vodka helps in the bottle too. puts kids right to sleep. >> this good came from new york. unbelievable. >> one of my favorite restaurants is mazeville because

the south is the home of bourbon. the south is home of all good things. music forms. the only food that was created like creole and cajun food. >> il willie was in new york and he said he felt uproot and disconnected from the earth and its sources. it's about the natural bounty. the south is full of natural county and they have these skills to address the bounty and they were talking about harvest and wild grantings. >> all of the trends now, farm the table and all of that stuff we were doing by necessity forever. >> it's really tart. >> pickled something. >> is this pi mento cheese?

>> it's one of the great things in the south. >> and a deviled egg. no one had ever seen one. >> who the heck is this? >> anything. >> that is great. so you guys have an event tonight celebrating this. >> a party downtown. the biggest effect we have coming the first weekend in december is jubilee. the weekend southern extravaganza. everyone is invited. >> the winner is going to be there. >> we have to go to the delta next year. for the third annual. so tonight that's fantastic. susan is going to be there. this is exciting. >> thank you for coming. >> thrilled to be here. >> congratulations. you make no sense and you are a -- according to your wife. he's adorable. the southerner's handbook.

the guide to living the good life. thank you. coming up, there is a new name topping the list of forbes most powerful people. we will reveal the powership next on morning joe. ready to run your lines? okay, who helps you focus on your recovery? yo, yo, yo. aflac. wow. [ under his breath ] that was horrible. pays you cash when you're sick or hurt? [ japanese accent ] aflac. love it. [ under his breath ] hate it.

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without all the sugar. the was a truly amazing day. without angie's list, i don't know if we could have found all the services we needed for our riley. for over 18 years we've helped people take care of the things that matter most. join today at angieslist.com i started part-time, now i'm a manager.n. my employer matches my charitable giving. really. i get bonuses even working part-time. where i work, over 400 people are promoted every day.

healthcare starting under $40 a month. i got education benefits. i work at walmart. i'm a pharmacist. sales associate. i manage produce. i work in logistics. there's more to walmart than you think. vo: opportunity. that's the real walmart. >> the first we had in the top ten and he heads wal-mart which is wal-mart. >> wal-mart is wal-mart. will we see him replaced? >> there was a big jump and i'm

not sure of his exact ranking. the purchase of the "washington post" shows ambitions are growing. one of the things we measure is confident. one of the things is people with multiple sfeers. the media mogul of politicians and one of the world's biggest people. >> and he comes on "morning joe." he won't be there for long. bill gates. you hear mumbling that they want to see him stop influencing microsoft. >> people say that during the microsoft stock. >> so gates needs to say -- >> they are looking for a new ceo and the man who founded the company and one of the most successful business enterprises should be involved. >> number five, angela merkel.

>> obviously the chancellor of germany and the most powerful woman in the world every year we have done this list the past five years and she has been implicated in the nsa spying scandal and we have been listening to her cell phone conversations. >> the next is pope francis. >> in fourth place. the first time the pope made it into the top ten. we look at the number of followers and he has been active in a short period of time. he made interesting -- >> galvanizing such joy. >> i looked at past years and how does that rank? >>. >> the president has been number one. in transition, they have been handing over the leadership slowly. the president has been subpoenaing all three offices that become the supreme leader of china. we look at population and the growth of china and it seems

like the right number. >> number two seems surprising because he's not number one. >> the funny thing is why barack obama was so high. that might have been politically influenced. the second time we have done this list that he was not number one. the president of the united states. we are the biggest and most dynamic economy and the largest military and most influential, but he is looking weak recently. the shut down of the government and the nsa spying scandal all hurt him. the list is put together by the forbes editors that go together. the vote was done in the government shut down. >> talk about number one. >> vladimir putin is number one. it shows he has been acting

unilaterally on the world stage. particularly with syria. he is far more assertive. >> look at that picture. that's why he is number one. >> sometimes he is riding a tiger even. >> i think you are confusing him with john meachem. >> he was what dhee in syria with snowden, but a lot of people view him as trying to claw back and stay relevant. he had successes, but they are compromised as a national power. >> i would say that russia has serious challenges as a national power, but i would say that the way he manipulated the political system means he can serve until 2026. this man is a strong man. a certain level of lack of accountability. he is not bltable for the way obama is. the way the communist party works is not transparent. i feel like putin can operate as

he pleases. >> the new issue of forbes is out now. thank you. >> the most powerful people. check it out. afternoon mojoe. we'll be right back. she loves a lot of the same things you do.

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>> this morning, the "morning joe" book club is wrapping up the first selection. five days at the memorial. that was a fantastic book. i read is cover to cover and it was gripping. it's going to be a movie. you can join the discussion by sending your questions for authors and tweet us your questions and sherry will answer them on our website and facebook page. this friday we are going to announce the next "morning joe" book club selection. look forward to that. am can be up, live coverage of health and human services kathleen sebelius's testimony before congress. next, what if anything did we learn today?

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i started part-time, now i'm a manager.n. my employer matches my charitable giving. really. i get bonuses even working part-time. where i work, over 400 people are promoted every day. healthcare starting under $40 a month. i got education benefits. i work at walmart. i'm a pharmacist. sales associate. i manage produce. i work in logistics. there's more to walmart than you think. vo: opportunity. that's the real walmart. >> 30 seconds. >> i learned a word today. it means favorable. >> how do you say it? >> it means favorable conditions. arthur slessinger wrote it.

>> the average ticket to tonight's game is $1,000. >> wow. >> what did you learn? >> go to the bar. >> because of your drinking. >> live at fenway tomorrow morning. good luck cardinals. if it's way too early, it's "morning joe." >> is it chuck today? >> yep. >> how are the dodgers doing? >> get ready for a grilling. hhs secretary kathleen sebelius is about to get the third-degree from members of the house on the rocky roll out of health care.gov. it is starting in minutes and we will take you there live. good morning from washington, wednesday october 30th, 2013. a special edition of the daily run down, a sebelius hearing edition. moments from now, the health and human services secretary will be

questioned for the first time since the troubled site went live a month ago. the stakes are personal. washington loves a scapegoat. the life in the theatrics of a good grilling of a public official. expect her to get beaten up as republicans broaden attacks from the dysfunctional website to the health care law. can she restore lost confidence in her own leadership? how vigorously will the democrats come to her defense or will they pile on? a preview of how the next few hours are likely to play out when the medicare chief was on the hot seat yesterday. >> do the millions of americans who attempted to use health care.gov, i want to apologize that the website has not worked as well as it should. this experience has not lived up to our expectations or expectations of the american people and it is not acceptable. >> according to her prepared te